Aliah Wright
This episode of Social Work Talks is sponsored by The Giovanne Show, where Real Stories Meet real solutions. This is Social Work Talks, and I'm your host, Aliah Wright, NASW. Social Work Talks is beginning an occasional series on careers and social work, and we're going to be talking to social workers about their career paths. Joining us today is Karessa Proctor, executive director of NASW's Maryland chapter, and a macro social worker. She is highly motivated, empathetic, master's level social worker with a specialization in administration, community organizing and policy analysis. She's also passionate about advocating for those who are low income and marginalized. For those new to social work, macro social workers focus on communities, policies and systems, and their goals are to address large scale social issues and advocate for systemic change. On the other hand, micro social workers help people cope with personal issues and access resources among many other personal things. In this episode, we'll explore how social workers shape their careers in both traditional and non-traditional ways, with a focus on macro social work, including policy, program development, community organizing, advocacy, and organizational leadership. We'll discuss educational roles, transitions into corporate, nonprofit, or government policy work, and how social workers can leverage skills in policy analysis, advocacy, and systems thinking for meaningful well compensated careers. Karessa, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here. First, Karessa, what drew you to macro social work and how has your career evolved?
Karessa Proctor
Great question. So my grandmother experienced an incredible amount of lack of care as she was going through her mental health treatment. Since then, I've kind of always been drawn to the bigger picture how policies, systems, and organizations impact people's everyday lives. And I became really determined to change them not only for my grandmother, but just for everyone. My paid career started with direct service and behavioral health and mental health, and while I loved supporting individuals, I realized that I wanted to be a part of shaping the structures that supported those individuals. I also knew that I needed to go to the community first before I could work alongside the community. Even before that, I was the vice president of my social work club at Could Sound University, where I got to help organize out of the darkness walks. I did film screenings for my campus and that really led me to my first ever macro internship, which was at my L-G-B-T-Q-I-A resource center at the university where I helped to build resources for students.
I helped to build educational programs and really awesome events that I also got to attend. So that experience really led me to study macro at my MSW program, which was at Howard University. H-U! I focused on displaced populations while I was there, and that really just opened my eyes to how deeply these systems affect vulnerable communities. So without me going to Howard University, I would've never interned at the NASW National Office. I interned for Mildred Joyner, who was the president of NASW National board, and I really just learned absolutely everything from her. I made an international conference under her leadership. I got to host large scale virtual events for all types of things like breast cancer, voting rights, sports, social work, which I didn't even know there was a sports social work until I started researching for that panel. And from there I got to serve as an administrative assistant to the N-A-S-W-C-E-O president and the governance office.
And I really realized from there I just wanted to stay at NASW and grow in my macro journey. So I went on to become a marketing coordinator for the programs team, which I found an enormous passion for crafting conferences and then spreading the word about those conferences. I kind of got to fulfill my dream of hosting an environmental justice virtual forum, which was absolutely amazing and I loved being there, but I knew that I needed to do even more with the skill that I learned. I had a huge passion that all kind of really led me to being the executive director of the NASW Maryland chapter, where now I get to be involved in policy program development, advocacy, organizational leadership of course, and then supporting all social workers across Maryland and then also any other social worker that might be coming into Maryland to work or learn. So all in all, it has not been the most traditional journey for someone with an MSW, but I have definitely loved the path along the way.
Aliah Wright
And you've had your MSW since when, because you're very new.
Karessa Proctor
I believe I graduated. Why? I know when I graduated, it was either 2022 or 2023. I actually got my NSW quicker than some other people have done it. And I don't always recommend that journey or pathway because it can be a little stressful. But I did the MSW Advanced Standing Program at Howard University where they actually did an inaugural class of an ASAP program where they essentially had you take a portion of the A SWB licensure exam and if you passed, you got to skip an additional semester. So I was supposed to study there for two years and then it was supposed to be a year and a half, and I ended up actually being able to graduate in two semesters. So I believe I started in 2021 and I ended in 2022.
Aliah Wright
Wow. So during the pandemic, that's incredible.
Karessa Proctor
Thank you. Yeah, it was definitely a very large experience, but if I hadn't done the ASAP cohort, I wouldn't have been able to intern at NASW National actually, because you have to be considered a second year in your MSW program. And because I skipped a year of grad school, I was able to get my internship at NASW.
Aliah Wright
So what does ASAP stand for?
Karessa Proctor
I don't even remember. But it was basically they meant just like asap. You do it right away, plausible, possible asap. You do it as soon as possible and as soon as possible. I sure did. I mean, I started in August and graduated by May.
Aliah Wright
Okay. Wow. So tell me, Karessa, what does a career in macro social work look like on a day-to-day basis?
Karessa Proctor
Well, I think that it can really, really vary and that's kind of what I love about it. So for me, I don't think any two days look the same. Sometimes I'm very deep in budgets and sometimes I'm strategic planning. Other days I'm all the way in Annapolis talking at the state house with legislators in a meeting or I'm testifying in front of them. Other times I am with our members organizing membership events that are at our chapter office or in our communities, making sure we're having up-to-date trainings. And also I'm running our conferences most of the time, trying to help people download their CE U certificates, making sure they have it for their licensure renewals. And I'm even behind the desk selling raffle tickets. So it can be a whole lot of things. That's what I do. But I know other people have different pathways as well. But I ultimately think that macro social work is really just a balance of that behind the scenes planning work and then also being out in the community, connecting with people and moving initiatives forward.
Aliah Wright
So how do macro social workers use their skills and policy advisory roles or organizational leadership?
Karessa Proctor
Our training as social workers gives us a really, really unique lens. We're kind of always thinking about equity and about the voices that aren't really at the table at the time and how those decisions or lack thereof decisions kind of ripple down. So in leadership, I use the skills that I learned in school, but also in my past opportunities for work and volunteering. And I guide that for how I'm currently running the NASW organization. So I use it to determine how I'm going to advocate for laws that protect our communities, how I'm going to support our members, whether it's analyzing policy or managing programs, leading a team. My skills like social work skills like communication and empathy and critical thinking are always at the forefront of that, always at the center of that. I think an example of that would be when I looked at the opportunities that we had at our chapter office when I joined, it seemed like there were a ton of different committees that people were a part of, but I kept seeing the same faces over and over and I kept noticing who was absent from those rooms.
So I went to my board and I said, what is going on? Why is this like this? And they always would tell me, this is just the way it's always been. So I looked at it, I analyzed it and I said, well, how do we create better access so that any NASW member can join and be a part of our committees? And we found a pretty simple solution. We just went on our homepage, we went to committees and made signup links for each and every one of our committees so that anybody within N-A-S-W-B membership could be a part of it. And those things seem small, but it's really about creating equal opportunity and problem solving, finding the problems, and then finding a solution. And we were basically just making sure that everybody had a chance to hear about all of our committees. And then from there, we really made sure, does everybody have a chance to hear about our workshops?
Are we meeting the people where they are? So now we really ensure that if we have an event, it's on social media, it's on our emails, it's in print, it's on our website, and I wouldn't really be able to do that problem solving without all of the different social work opportunities that I've had in the past and taking those skills and applying it to my current leadership cycle. And that really started with my empathy. I realized that not everybody had the same opportunities in their workplaces, so I wanted to make sure that I was providing that in their membership space.
Aliah Wright
This episode of Social Work Talks is sponsored by The Giovanne Show, where Real Stories meet Real solutions hosted by Giovanne Schachere, MS. A Social Impact leader and CEO. The show amplifies voices of change across social work, leadership and community care. Each episode and blog explores how compassion encouraged transforms lives from the streets to city halls, from faith to reform, watch and subscribe to inspiring conversations that remind us why human connection still matters. Visit schachere.com. That's S-C-H-A-C-H-E-R-E.com because when we share real stories, we create real solutions. The Giovanne Show.
Do you think most macro social workers intend to enter politics or shape public policy or elite organizations like you have?
Karessa Proctor
I don't think so. Honestly. I think macro social work can be so many things, and it really depends on the person. I do think a lot of people think macro social work is only policy or leading an organization, but there is absolutely so much. We have an amazing MSW in our legislator, delegate Jamila Woods, but some macro social workers absolutely go into politics or public policy, but others focus on things like research. They focus on human resources or grant writing projects, program specialists or even community organizers. I think a lot of folks don't know how many community organizers or their local community organizers actually are social workers. But I think ultimately what ties us all together is that we're all focused on system change and systems development. And my own path has been about organizational leadership and advocacy, but I have amazing peers who are doing absolutely stellar work in the research sector. They're even in think tanks and they own their own nonprofits. So I think there's just a lot of flexibility in this field. And while public policy might be the ones that you hear about the most, there are a lot of us doing all types of macro social work.
Aliah Wright
Tell us about the wins the Maryland chapter has had with the proclamation from the governor and the social work compact.
Karessa Proctor
Oh, I would absolutely love to. So NASW Maryland in our past year and a half of me being the executive director has had a lot of great wins, of course in the public policy space, but also just in advancing social work as a whole. While we were working on the social work compact, there were a lot of people who didn't really understand the value of the compact, and then there were a lot of folks who didn't really see the benefit of the compact. So I think the start of that was really trying to have small wins, small wins with our members, small wins with our legislators of just saying, okay, I left this conversation and I know that the person I spoke to understands the value of the compact, whether it passed or didn't. I understand now that person that I spoke to might help us the next day.
So while it did not pass in Maryland the first time we introduced it, it was a lot simpler the second time. And I think that it was because of the education campaigns that we did. It was the one pagers that we wrote and gave to our delegates and gave to our senators. We initiated a lot of email writing campaigns and phone calls, and we implored our members to get active and show up at Annapolis. And while I was testifying, I turned around and I asked everyone to stand or raise their hand and say that they were here to support the social work licensure compact. And I think that really made a really big impact on the Senate Finance Committee who was a bit apprehensive at first. And then when we showed up in community and we showed up together, we got that bill passed with the help of all of us.
Aliah Wright
So Karessa, for our listeners who don't know what the social work licensing compact is, can you explain what that is?
Karessa Proctor
Of course. So the Social Work Licensure compact allows social workers who have or are eligible for an active license in the compact member state where they reside to apply for a multi-state license. So after they verify that they're eligible, the social worker is granted a multi-state license, which authorizes practice in all other compact states. So I think sometimes folks get confused and they think that they can work in any state, but it is any state that has also passed the compact. So currently we have 31 states who have passed the compact, but there are more that are currently working on the legislation and that we hope we that by next year when the first applications are ready, all the states will have passed it.
Aliah Wright
That basically means that if I'm licensed in Maryland and if I want to practice in Michigan for example, then if Michigan is a part of the compact, then I can treat people in Michigan.
Karessa Proctor
Yes, you sure Can
Aliah Wright
I just have one more question for you. What advice would you give to students or early career social workers considering a path and macro social work?
Karessa Proctor
I would say to start with your curiosity because you should really take absolutely every opportunity that you can and explore what you like and what you don't like. So whether that's joining any internship that comes across your way or volunteering for whatever you can and joining every committee, I think all of those experiences will help you by determining what excites you and what doesn't excite you. I think that I had a very short sprint in micro social work, and it just gave me so much love and respect for clinical social workers and for folks who are doing case manager or what have you, because I spent that time and really realized it wasn't for me and that all of those folks were doing the amazing work and I couldn't wait to help them build their workforce on the other side of things. So you really just shouldn't be afraid to build skills in different areas along the way.
For me, I think things like program management and the grant writing and even the marketing that I have done have been all really valuable in the spaces I've done in the past, but have brought me so much more experience where I am now as an executive director, I think it's really important to get the ball rolling before your first day on the workforce because I've met a lot of people who have struggled to land roles for some time after graduation because while they had a BSW or an MSW, they had no field experience, so they were having a really hard time getting hired because they just didn't have the skills that they were looking for. And that was almost me. But I think when I took opportunities, like being the vice president of my social work club at Kutztown, it really gave me opportunities to lead and it gave me a lot of social work skills that I wouldn't have had otherwise.
And I was able to talk about those experiences in my first ever interview and I landed the job, but not everyone has that opportunity. So sometimes you have to go out there and find that, and sometimes that is right at your NASW home. I mean, my chapter has 17 different committees, and while that could be a lot, I think it really just gives folks every single opportunity. So if you are a clinical social worker, you have the opportunity to practice macro social work by being in our legislative committee. You can write testimony, you can testify in the Senate, or you can even just help out and build those one-pager. Ultimately, I think you should remember that the impact that you have is important, and whether that's you started off today or you did it in 20 years, any change that you come across and any change that you have in someone's life is important.
And then that will help you focus on that systems level change. And even if you're not sitting with clients every day, the policies that you might help shape in the organizations you might build can change the conditions for thousands of people. I think sometimes when you're not doing direct practice, you don't always get that immediate gratification of helping someone and seeing that immediate difference. So sometimes it makes you feel like you're not a real social worker, but I think that social workers need to be absolutely everywhere that a decision is being made and the work that you do is valid.
Aliah Wright
Wonderful. Do you have any final thoughts?
Karessa Proctor
I think I have a lot of thoughts, but I'll make it clear and concise. I think that social work is one of the most misunderstood professions, but our profession ultimately is about helping people. And I hope that folks who are listening to this realize that there isn't only one way to help people. Therapy is incredibly important. I think I try to encourage absolutely everyone I have met to please go to therapy, whether it is for the oil change that I need in my brain sometimes, or it's to work out longstanding issues. Therapists are incredibly important and are doing the great work, but so are macro social workers, so are the social workers who are helping to expand the workforce. We had macro social workers who are showing up and writing the letters to the Senate Finance Committee to ensure that clinical social workers could work in multiple states.
We need each other, and I don't believe that one is more valid than the other. We all need to be involved in this work and in macro social work because if you have clients, then you should be advocating for those clients and you should be advocating for the problems they face. I have spoken to a lot of folks who say, I have anxiety, but my anxiety is utterly about the climate that I'm facing, the economic climate that I'm under recurring. And I stop and I say, well, wow, maybe if we fix the economy, these folks wouldn't be as anxious. There's a lot of different ways that we can problem solve, and there's a lot of different ways that we can help, and I hope that more folks will consider helping in a systems way and helping do that larger systems changed.
Aliah Wright
Well, thank you Karessa for joining us for today's podcast. We really appreciate it. Of course. So happy to be here, and thank you listeners for tuning in to this episode of Social Work Talks as we engage in a conversation about macro social work and careers in social work for those who are new or curious about the profession. You can visit the show notes on our podcast page to learn more about the various types of social work. Again, thank you so much for listening.