Greg Wright:
Welcome to Social Work Talks. I am your host, Greg Wright. Thousands of migrants including children remain detained in facilities in US border states, and around the nation. In March, Social Work Talks sat down with NASW Texas Chapter Executive Director, Will Francis, and Alison Mohr Boleware, the chapter's Government Relations Director. Will and Alison talked about the continued inhumane treatment of these migrants, and how NASW has formed a special committee to advocate for them. Then the coronavirus pandemic hit. We revisited Will and Alison this month to talk about how the pandemic is affecting detained immigrants and what social workers can do to help. Will and Alison, how are you doing today?
Will Francis:
Doing good, thank you.
Alison Mohr Boleware:
Yeah, doing great. Thanks for having us on.
Greg Wright:
Immigration and the treatment of migrants has been in the news a lot lately. I was wondering if you have an overview of what's actually happening now both in Texas and then other areas along the border?
Will Francis:
Texas is in an interesting place because obviously immigration is a federal issue and a lot of what we do is determined by federal dollars and federal policy. And yet once someone is in our state, it's really up to Texas to determine the response. So we essentially have to deal with the president's policies, which are pushing people outside our borders if they're trying to legally immigrate here, which is really cracking down, as it were, on what support systems we have once they're in the country, coupled with a state which is still pretty conservative politically. And so we still put a whole lot of money into securing our borders, I guess. The past two sessions we've put a little over $800 million into that. A lot of that goes to staff who patrol or guard our borders. A lot of that goes into military type resources that are seen as a needed protection against possible criminal activity down there.
But not a lot has really gone into how we address the issues facing someone who's coming to this country because they are many, many times fleeing violence. They're coming here to be with family. They do have good reasons for wanting to come into our country. And so we're still working that out, and NASW's voice here in Texas at the chapter level is both trying to support good policy within our Capitol, trying to advocate for funding and decisions that really allow families to stay together and to get the mental health and other support they need, while also supporting NASW in DC's ability to really advocate for a greater social work role within the framework of our centers, and when those who are immigrants are in contact with professionals. And really for a better policy on how we process, how we utilize our court systems and how we really move people to a resolution.
Greg Wright:
Where are the majority of these migrants coming from, and what is the situation back home that's actually forcing them to attempt to enter our nation?
Alison Mohr Boleware:
Yeah, I think that's a great question. And with us being on the border with Mexico, we know that a lot of the immigrants are coming from the South, either Central America, South America, coming up through Mexico. Fleeing extremely violent situations, and other violence that's there in their home countries and really trying to escape that, whenever they're coming into Texas. That's what we're seeing the most, I'd say, from our state.
Greg Wright:
How are our chapters helping these people?
Alison Mohr Boleware:
We, as the Texas chapter, we're involved in a number of statewide and national coalitions and networks that we engage with more to support their work. We really see them as the on the ground experts and leaders, and we just want to support them and the efforts that they're already doing. One such group is called the Detention Watch Network and they're a group that looks at detention centers. And you may know, or the listeners may not know, that a number of those detention centers are housed in Texas. Many of them actually pretty close to Austin where we are located.
So we see that a lot of social workers and social work students are really interested in engaging in making sure that the people that are in those detention centers are treated humanely and fairly, but also acknowledging that within this Detention Watch Network, how can we make sure that we can be a coordinated effort to also try to stop those detention centers from growing, as well as stop new ones from coming to Texas. That's just one effort that we have. We also have a number of social workers who are really on the ground in local branches across our Texas chapter that are really working with immigrants either helping with perhaps resettlement, or helping with counseling and therapy once they are able to get settled, and want to talk through things about their experiences. We also have social workers working on the legal side of these issues as well.
Will Francis:
Yeah. To add to that, and many people here or immigrating to this country have to go through something called a credible fear interview, which is an actual interview that discusses the violence that they're fleeing, their experiences in their home country, why they say that they need to be here or else they will be unsafe if they go home. And that is often done in conjunction with an attorney, but many social workers are doing that, and so what we need, and what we support our social workers who can speak Spanish or actually other indigenous languages, are able to provide those. Many times our social workers partner with attorneys as they go in, and we are a huge advocate of the chapter of ensuring that social workers are doing social work, and that attorney is not just using them as a translator, but is actually bringing all their professional skills into that relationship.
Greg Wright:
There is an issue that has outraged a lot of folks and it's a separation of the migrant children from their families. What would be a longterm effect of this happening? Because what I've read is that a lot of the children will be separated for months, if not a few years from their families.
Will Francis:
Yeah. This is a really big issue that we've been involved in for a long time. A couple sessions ago, we opposed a bill that would have brought our family detention centers under state oversight. It's not that we don't feel that they should be safe places and actually have regulations ensuring that we are able to observe what's happening there. We just feel those families should be in the communities and that these are really basically locked down prisons that we're putting our families in for no reason other than the fact that they are coming here fleeing violence. And so we oppose that and we've done a whole lot in trying to support families remaining together. Here in Texas we have a really big push to make our child welfare system trauma informed and that everyone in that system should have a trauma training and we're huge advocates as a chapter that that should be the exact same for our immigration system and that everyone in our child detention centers or family detention centers or any of those facilities should have training in trauma.
And so that's really how we try to put our voice in there. And then we do have this balance between you have unaccompanied minors whose families are not able to make the journey with them or something happens along the way and they show up at our border alone. And then you have the families themselves are together. We have at least one facility here that was fathers and sons and, we have another that was mothers and sons. And in all of those reports we hear is that the conditions are very subpar. That they're denied access to medical care or other therapeutic care simply as a punishment. The children again, are required to follow jail type standards. And in all of these we really do raise our voice strong.
Alison Mohr Boleware:
It is one of our priorities on our legislative interim agenda. So right now the legislative session in Texas, we're not in the legislative session. So right now we're talking to legislative offices and this is something that we bring up, but also acknowledging like Will said that since so much of the immigration policy is at the federal level, what we do more at the Texas level is combat negative legislation or things that would harm immigrants even more or things that would take away more of their rights. And so I do think that there is a lot of interest in this. We have an extremely diverse state with a very large population of folks who are immigrants or have immigrants in their family. So this is a huge issue. The public charge issue is another one that we've been involved with. So the public charge rule, I think it went into effect very recently.
Will Francis:
Last month or so.
Alison Mohr Boleware:
Last month or so. And so we know that that affects how folks engage either in the healthcare system. We're hearing that some moms do not go to any prenatal care because they're fearful of either themselves or a family member being found out that they're undocumented. We're hearing that a lot out of Houston. We know that it changes how people engage in the healthcare system, how they engage, whether they apply for Medicaid for their children as well as CHIP. We know that that's a huge issue and we're seeing in Texas that a lot of folks just aren't engaging in benefits or services that they are eligible for out of fear that it would impact their immigration status or potentially deportation.
Greg Wright:
Wow. I've also heard that our chapters, not only a Texas chapter but others are working in an immigration group and I was wondering if you could tell me more about how that group works.
Alison Mohr Boleware:
Sure. So thanks for asking. We're really excited about this. So we were contacted by the New York chapter and as well as the National NASW staff. The four of us have really been working closely probably since the fall to talk about what would this working group look like and what was decided was that this chapter immigration working group would be housed within the social action committee and we decided that it would be dedicated to education, coordination and mobilization of local and state NASW chapters and that this work would really be on behalf of immigrants, including refugees and asylees looking at legislative and policy focused issues with the ultimate goal to engage more social workers in immigration refugee and asylee related work.
We know a lot of people are interested in this as you've shared, but we know that it's hard sometimes to collect information, knowing information is important to social workers. So this is really what we're working on right now. We've only had one formal meeting and we invited other border states to join us and we're hoping to in the future get more formalized. But we're really excited about this work. Everyone's extremely passionate and sharing what things look like in their state and knowing that the reality is different states have different political landscape. So what's happening in California and Florida looks very different than what's happening in Texas, but we really want to mobilize more social workers on these issues. And that's the ultimate goal of the group.
Greg Wright:
So in a perfect world, how should this issue be solved?
Will Francis:
Well, I think it's a great question and I'll take it and I want to hear Alison as well, but I think we really have to advocate for change at the federal level. Some of that's going to come with the elections, that if we keep the same people who have power right now in power, we're going to see the same policies. An old adage is, at some point you can't change minds, so you have to change people. And I think that's really important hear, is that if we want to see our numbers of refugees that we allow into this country, if we want to see immigration policies that support DACA and Dreamers and others who come here and have shown that they're established. All the data shows that people who immigrate here, whether legally or illegally pay their taxes at some of the highest rates of anyone.
And so these are people who contribute to the infrastructure of our country. And we really need to think about how we support that. Some of it comes to funding. Are we putting resources into mental health? We as a chapter advocate that every single person who is immigrating here, no matter what status should see a social worker, should see a mental health professional, should be able to be assessed for trauma, should be able to get connected to resources that they need. And then again, the other piece is the policy piece, which is just we have to understand people are fleeing violence, people are afraid for their lives. This is an incredibly hard journey. It is fraught with peril all along the way. And if someone is willing to make that trip, it means that they're leaving something that is horrific and we need to respect that and we need to think about how we can support them here.
And then the other piece of that and it's a larger... How we focus on our global policy is what are we doing to support these countries? We know places like Honduras and El Salvador, the violence and the gang is incredibly hard there. I'm not saying we come in and we intervene and we and we necessarily tell that country what to do, but we think about what resources could a country like that utilize that would perhaps help them address some of the problems at home. And maybe that's where we support some of the influx of people.
Greg Wright:
Alison, if it was a perfect world and if we had a perfect policy, what would it be?
Alison Mohr Boleware:
Well I think I'm going to go back to the rule book and looking at the Social Work Speaks. I really love how it's written in our policy statement on immigration and really looking at how can we promote social justice and avoid racism, discrimination, profiling, indecent travel bans and also just promoting both US and other countries, immigration policies to focus on human wellbeing, world peace and stability. And I don't think I could say what specific policy it would be, but like Will said I think looking at things comprehensively and not just what's going on in our country, but what's going on in other countries. How can we make people feel if they do come to the United States feel welcomed here and not treated poorly and inhumanely. And sadly that's where we are right now. And especially in Texas, there is a lot of negative rhetoric about immigration and about refugees and asylees.
For example, our governor at the beginning of this year decided that Texas would not allow any new refugees to be resettled in Texas. And we spoke out very quickly against this as a chapter saying that we see that the value that refugees bring to our state, we have pockets of refugees resettled in some rural areas of the States that have brought some really amazing benefits both culturally and economically and have really done an amazing job assimilating and growing in these really rural parts of the state. And we see that across Texas. There are so many examples of this where they have brought benefits to the communities and that we want Texas to be seen as a welcoming place. And that all means all and we think that includes refugees. So that's just an example of one policy that we do disagree with and that we wish that our governor had chosen differently on.
Greg Wright:
If I'm a social worker who is outside of a border state and I want to help out, what is advice you would offer me?
Will Francis:
That's a question that we get all the time. And I appreciate you asking that because we often hear from other chapters or other social workers saying, "I heard about this issue on the news. I really want to come help. I'm a retired social worker. I have the ability to travel down there. What do I do?". And my caution is you really have to look at the rules of the state where you're going. And so in Texas for instance, we have title protection here and to do social work in Texas you have to be licensed in Texas as a social worker. And so I would just be cautious about say coming down and volunteering and serving in maybe a clinical role or doing assessments or doing social work in ways that could impact your license back in your state where you come from or could say something happened and someone made a complaint and it turned out you weren't licensed here potentially brings some negative attention to the whole situation.
So just be very thoughtful about that. Look at the rules of the state. If it's Arizona, if it's California, if it's Texas, see what that looks like. And then understand that there's probably a pretty good need back in your own state, that there's refugee services there, that there's other ways you can donate time and resources at the local level or money at the national level to causes but that we just want to be cautious about people just jumping in into a situation that may impact licensure.
Greg Wright:
There was an article in the Washington Post, it's actually gotten a lot of play all around the nation and it's on a therapy notes issue. I was wondering if you're also following that at a chapter level there?
Will Francis:
Yeah. We released a statement on that very quickly and we want people to understand there's a couple of issues here. One there are therapy notes and there's the medical record and therapy notes are protected and as long as those are kept physically separate here in Texas you have greater protections on that so you have to be thoughtful about the way the process is. The other piece however, is if you work for an agency organization that is ICE or is connected or has those contracts, you may be required to turn certain information over. And we were incredibly saddened by the ethical lapses I think that were made in a situation of someone promising information would be kept confidential and it wasn't. And so as social workers and as mental health professionals, we really need to be thinking about how we disclose our roles to clients and we've come out and said we don't think it's appropriate.
We hope that it ICE changes their policy, that they do not use information that was shared within a therapeutic setting in a way to bar someone from remaining in this country. But that if those are the systems we work in and those are the policies in place, then we have to be crystal clear about our role and what we can share. And we really have to support clients at the end of the day. And if that client needs greater therapeutic support for some trauma that happened in the past, then they may need to get it outside of an interview like that and it's more of a referral or it's more of an understanding of how other resources that protect that client need to be utilized.
Greg Wright:
Alison and Will, the big issue now is a coronavirus pandemic and it's really spreading in prisons, jails, nursing homes, places where people are really locked in. How is it affecting thousands of detained migrants?
Alison Mohr Boleware:
There has been a lot of fears of the lack of supplies within the detention centers, the lack of social distancing due to the close proximity of all the folks living in there as well as lack of testing and other supplies that are needed in those detention centers. And so there has been a big push from what we've seen of people just asking for more folks to be released from the detention centers as well as asking for no new people to be sent to the detention center. So a twofold approach there. And so we definitely agree that it's a huge issue and the last thing that we want is for people to be not only in the detention center but sick in the detention center and unable to get the supplies that they need and to spread it to others that are there as well.
Will Francis:
Yeah. One of the things that's been so upsetting to us from a social work standpoint that we've really seen this issue get politicized. We've seen our own state, our own attorney general, really talk about how we should be putting our testing kids towards front line personnel and not worrying about those incarcerated either in the criminal justice system or in our immigration system and really using rhetoric that frames them as not worthy or that if we do put resources into those populations, we're taking it away from someone else. And I think that that's really a harmful way to look at this. I think we need to be thinking that everybody needs access to that.
Everyone needs to be as safe as possible. And it doesn't matter whether you're in a jail or you're in a detention center or you're out there in the front lines, you need to be a priority and that we need to be looking at getting tests everywhere and not trying to pick and choose who should get it. So I'm really frustrated with how the rhetoric is really pointing fingers at these people who may very well be sick and who may need medical care.
Greg Wright:
Yes. So I was wondering if anyone has any estimates now on how many folks are detained and how many might be ill at this point?
Alison Mohr Boleware:
I think that's a really good question and I'm honestly not sure if anyone can even say that. I think that there has been a lot of issues in Texas with testing in general and reporting in general. So I think that already there are issues outside of the detention centers with knowing all of the exact numbers. And I can only imagine that I think it's tougher even within the detention centers to know who might have the virus or not because of lack of testing, exactly like Will said. And I think that there is a huge fear of the lack of resources that already these detention centers had. Exactly like Will said, things are being diverted to other parts of the state and other areas. But the folks that are in the detention centers as well as jails and prisons also need humane treatment and need to be taken care of as well. And right now we know that there just hasn't been the same effort towards some other populations that that is very needed for the detention centers.
Will Francis:
Yeah. And while Alison was talking, I got to look up some research. So this is not something that I had at the tip of my tongue, but it looks like right now we've got a little around 30,000 people or so. And from April, 2019 Texas has about 14,000. Louisiana has about 4,000, Arizona has about 4,000. California 4,000, [Georgia almost 1,000 00:00:22:13]. And those are just the top states and then according to the federal government data, 70% of those people are held in privately run immigrant [inaudible 00:22:22]. These are big numbers we're talking about. And this could be anyone from someone who is seeking political asylum to someone who was picked up for not possessing the correct documentation. It could be someone who was moved from a jail into this population. It could be a family and a parent and a child. So we're talking a really big number here and we're talking a really, really big [inaudible 00:22:42] for people that traditionally have not had good medical care anyway, good mental health and other care.
And if they're in a situation where they're afraid for themselves or their children and are worried about whether they've contracted the virus, maybe they have previous medical history that makes them more at risk, they need mental health support. It's a giant gap that I think our administration is currently leaving those needs unmet and is actually using this as a way to push an agenda even bigger than the one it should be, which is how do we support all of the people within our borders as well as beyond as well?
Greg Wright:
Will to make that clear. These 30,000, those are the number of detained migrants that are in those facilities in those border areas?
Will Francis:
Correct. Those are just the biggest, we know that other states, Pennsylvania, and I want to say some of the other small other states do have smaller ones and we know that there's littler numbers, but those are the big facilities and those are where we have the most. And again, the reason why those are the biggest risks because the more people we have at any one time, more of the risk we have for spreading the coronavirus.
Alison Mohr Boleware:
Yes and I think as we've seen that there have been some prisons across the country where the positive test rates of coronavirus within a prison have grown rapidly once one person who is in the prison has it, it can spread quickly. And so as Will said, with so many people in the detention centers, and Texas does have a large number. There's a lot of fear that if it is within a detention center, it will spread quickly. And I don't really think we can say how many people have tested positive because we don't think that those people are getting tested yet.
Will Francis:
Most people spend about a month or less in detention and so that means that they're back out in communities and that is a hugely risky thing if they have contracted in while [inaudible 00:24:30].
Greg Wright:
Will I've also been reading in the news that they are sending infective migrants back home and a lot of these nations don't have adequate healthcare anyway. So it's spreading it even more.
Alison Mohr Boleware:
Right. And I think Greg you bring up a really good point. So we had a forum with some of our social work members a couple of weeks ago and we were really asking them what are some things that you all are seeing in your community? What questions do you have? And the number of questions that we got on, I need to help clients that I have that are undocumented that are struggling with housing or healthcare access or food. But because those folks might be undocumented or have someone undocumented in their home, they're not eligible for certain programs or they are fearful to try to get a program involved with their family because they're fearful of deportation. So I think there's so much lack of trust of certain institutions that those communities might not reach out or the very services that are needed building on previous fears because of public charge rules and other things that have gone on with ICE and deportation. There's just a lot of distrust in the community, which then only exacerbates the lack of resources that those folks have.
Greg Wright:
I was wondering if I'm a social worker and this issue has enraged me, how can I act? I mean what are a few concrete things that our members in the wider social work community can do to help these people?
Alison Mohr Boleware:
Well, I know here in Texas we have a number of groups that are really on the ground working with folks and I can share some information with you all to put on the podcast notes, but RAICES is it an amazing group. We have several members of NASW Texas that work for them that are really experts on immigration, refugees and asylees and can really speak to the issues on the ground and donating money to them can help them provide more services. We've been contacted by a few different people within our membership. Do we know any health supports that are available for undocumented immigrants? So I think to donating to groups that you know are providing mental health supports to people because this is extremely traumatic. The fear of deportation is only an added trauma. So I think having those mental health supports in other languages is so important.
Alison Mohr Boleware:
We also have human rights committee within NASW Texas and we are working right now on a few different items to educate social workers on how to better support undocumented immigrants. And we will make sure that we release some action alerts once we have some more concrete ideas. Will and I really want to make sure that we're listening to the community, that we're working with community partners that are already working on this. And we do have a meeting later on today actually with a group that helps social workers support folks that are in detention centers that really know that community well and know the population well, so we will probably have some more direct action alerts even later today or tomorrow.
We also are working with a number of other chapters, NASW chapters within the country on our immigration working group, which is a subcommittee within the social action committee and we had a meeting earlier this week, we are working on a few different items right now. Mel and Eric are really leading the charge and we're alongside them and it's been really great to see what all different states are doing right now and so I think that we will have some more action items coming out of that immigration working group that NASW members can really plug in and take action.
Will Francis:
If people want things to change, then you have to have people in power who are sympathetic to your views. And so I think elections are a big part of it.
Greg Wright:
Our president, he's had an announcement on DACA as well as a ban on all immigrants coming in. And I was wondering what is your opinion of all of these actions?
Will Francis:
Yeah again, I think this just speaks to how political this is about. When you have President Trump coming out on Twitter saying that he's going to take major action here. And then what he essentially proposed is that if he puts a 60 day ban on all people seeking [inaudible 00:29:03] or legal residents here in a way to both protect American jobs, you really have to question what the motivation is. We know that so many of our healthcare workers are people who come from an immigrant background. We know that so many of the people working on our front lines, or even just doing tasks such as working in grocery stores or working in essential businesses for your car and other things really are here to keep up the infrastructure. These people who have immigrated to the United States or come here in many, many different ways, be it immigration, be it refugee status or whatever.
And so to really sort of point the finger outside, I think really is something we have to question. We know that the United States currently has the most confirmed cases of coronavirus. We know that we have some of the most deaths that's what we've reported. We know obviously there's a lot of data out there that we don't have, but those are some really big numbers about how we need to really be making sure that our internal mechanisms are in place and then in the most recent stimulus package, they put in a whole [inaudible 00:30:01] lot of relief for university students and they just declared yesterday the department of education that DACA students would not be allowed to access those dollars. There's 700,000 people who are in the DACA program. Many, many of them are in universities. Many of them are seeking that education, that college degree.
All the data shows is the way to become that productive, tax paying, backwards contributing member of society. That's how your income is raised. That's how job opportunities are available for you. To close the door on people who are seeking that. Again, I think it's just cruel. I think it just doesn't align with social values and I think it really shows how I think the current administration has lost a lot of control on this situation. Just really trying to look to point the fingers in other places, when what they really should be doing is really saying how do we get our medical and our financial supports as broad as possible to as many people that need them.
Greg Wright:
Wow. There's a lot happening and I'm really glad that you were able to give us an update on it. Thank you for all of your hard work and also for giving us a few moments of your time. Will and Alison, thank you so much for being on Social Work Talks.
Will Francis:
Thank you, Greg. You're awesome.
Alison Mohr Boleware:
Thank you all so much.
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